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The Climbing Club :: View topic - BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers
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BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers
http://students.washington.edu/climb/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5907
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Jim Prager [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

I'm not sure if there was an accident recently involving a daisy chain used as a personal anchor, but I've seen two articles in three days about the dangers of a daisy chain and a reminder that they are designed for aid climbing only. I know we've discussed this before on the forum, but figured the article from BD was worth pointing out.


Author:  Brian Polagye [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

The comments section does bring up a good point.

Agreed that a daisy chain (or any piece of static connection) makes for a very bad belay.

However, when setting up for rappel or cleaning sport anchors, does anyone *not* use a static connection to the anchors? Daisy chain, PAS, slings - all static. One could certainly use 8mm nylon to tie into the anchors, but I don't think I've seen this done routinely...

Author:  Jim Prager [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

The is 73% nylon, which would be a dynamic connection.

Author:  Dylan Price [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

Nice, I didn't know that about the PAS. Maybe I'll buy one now...

Recently I've been using a as my connection to the anchors. It's great because it's dynamic and you can adjust the length on the fly.

Author:  Jim Prager [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers


Author:  David Goulet [ Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

I use a PAS For my primary and for a backup I use a 6mm cord tied in a loop equal to the length of the longest loop of my PAS. This then becomes my waist prussik in a rescue situation and it is a little more dynamic than my PAS.

Author:  Obadiah Reid [ Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

Nylon slings (like the PAS) are only marginally more "dynamic" than their dyneema/spectra counterparts(). As I think we've discussed before, the main caution here relates to behavior, not engineering. Don't let slack develop between you and the anchor. Don't fool around at those rap stations, even if your toes hurt like hell and climbing above the anchor would be more comfortable. Even if you are tied in with the rope, it would be very easy to generate a potentially dangerous factor-2 fall when tied in short. The length of the fall is nothing, the fall-factor is everything. As long as you have no slack, there should be no difference between the different (full-strength) tie-in methods. The exception of course is belay anchors, where one or more component might fail, and generate some slack. Here I always advocate using the rope to anchor in, with the caveat that in order for this practice to do you any good there has to be a significant amount of rope in the system. if you tie in 2" down from your harness knot, you might as well have clipped directly into the static sling.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the issue. Worry more about how you use you anchor, than what anchor you use.

That said, the daisy chain has an additional problem that I don't think was discussed in the article or the comments on it. Even should you use it "properly", girth hitching it to your biner, or using 2 biners, you still have the problem that should the stitching blow, you'll be shock loading the static sling.

Author:  Jonathan Toner [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

That's kind of freaky. Back in my younger climbing days I would clip in the second loop on my daisy chain all the time. About 5 years ago I started clove hitching the rope, and haven't looked back since.

Author:  Lee Willcockson [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BD Quality Control: Daisy Chain Dangers

I've been waiting to see if someone posted this. Personally I use a daisy and will continue to do so; as I commented on the BD site:

The potential hazards of clipping two loops in the daisy are eliminated by girth-hitching the daisy to the clipping carabiner. Another solution is to use a second carabiner as suggested, but it's quicker and easier if the second biner is attached to one's belay loop and used in a similar way to a fifi hook.

As others have pointed out, the real issue is shock loading, which could be a problem even when tying in using the rope.

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